From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0001.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0001.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0001.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0002.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0002.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0002.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0002.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0002.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0002.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0001.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0003.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0003.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0003.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0003.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0003.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0003.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0002.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0004.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0004.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0004.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0004.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0004.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0004.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0003.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0001.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0005.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0005.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0005.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0005.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0005.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0005.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0005.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0002.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0001.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0006.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0006.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0006.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0006.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0006.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0006.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0006.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0003.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0002.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0002.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0007.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0007.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0007.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0007.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0007.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0007.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0007.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0004.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0003.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0003.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0008.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0008.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0008.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0008.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0008.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0008.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0008.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0005.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0004.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0004.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0009.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0009.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0009.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0009.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0009.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0009.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0009.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0006.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0005.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0005.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0010.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0010.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0010.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0010.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0010.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0010.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0010.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0007.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0006.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0006.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0011.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0011.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0011.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0011.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0011.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0011.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0011.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0008.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0007.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0007.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0012.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0012.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0012.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0012.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0012.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0012.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0012.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0009.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0008.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0008.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0013.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0013.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0013.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0013.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0013.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0013.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0013.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0010.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0009.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0009.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0014.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0014.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0014.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0014.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0014.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0014.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0014.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0011.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0010.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0010.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0015.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0015.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0015.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0015.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0015.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0015.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0015.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0012.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0011.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0011.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0016.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0016.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0016.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0016.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0016.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0016.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0016.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0013.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0012.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/9783ea74/attachment-0012.htm From waarde at glo.be Thu Jun 5 11:07:54 2008 From: waarde at glo.be (Karel van der Waarde) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:07:54 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: =?iso-8859-1?q?IIID_Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Syst?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ems=3A_=A0Infoconnectivity?= Message-ID: Dear all, The following announcement will be interesting for those who work in the public transport area. Kind regards, Karel. waarde at glo.be >> IIID Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems:??Infoconnectivity - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks?. We are looking forward to a challenging event to be staged at the Tech Gate Vienna on 4/5 September this year. Let me quote from what IIID says on?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?: "If?'inter-connectivity'?between transport networks is?to be enhanced, measures focusing on improving?'INFOconnectivity'?between transport networks and?their customers are indispensable. Highest possible effects in accelerating passenger transfers may be?expected by introducing the concept of?'intertwined information'?of and between transport networks. The Expert Forum Traffic Guiding Systems serves the shared interests of designers/planners, researchers, educators, suppliers, essential users, transport authorities and the public hand that carries most of the costs of public transport networks." The quality of the Expert Forum will depend on the reactions to the Call for Speakers. We invite all members and friends who are or have been involved in one way or the other in matters of "infoconnectivity" to raise hands by sending a proposal to IIID - on 11 June at the latest. Details are available at?http://www.iiid-expertforum.net/?from where you can download the Call for Speakers (PDF). Estimating that a demanding topic needs more time to find its speakers and audience we allocated nearly 3 1/2 months for the Call. We are confident that this will result in responses comparable to the ones of previous Expert Fora - which always surpassed our expectations. Please be informed that there will NOT be an extension of the deadline. Submissions will get immediately reviewed by the Expert Forum Committee to enable IIID to push on without delay. Best regards, Peter Simlinger IIID Director Palffygasse 27/17, 1170 Wien/Vienna, Austria, Europe T: +43 (0)1 4036662, F: +43 (0)1 4036662-15 <http://www.iiid.net> From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 11:20:10 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material Message-ID: Colleagues, I need your help once more. One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information problem (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or amateurish. Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? Who are the authors of such criticisms? Thanks. -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/06271989/attachment-0017.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 11:36:29 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:36:29 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Hi Jose, The earliest, and one of the best examples of this, is a classic paper by Michael Macdonald-Ross. Macdonald-Ross, M. (1977) How numbers are shown: A review of research on the presentation of quantitative data in texts. AV Communication, 25, 359-404. We drew on this, and other work we cite, to do a literature review on usable medicines information, where we developed a set of criteria for evaluating other disciplines research from an ID point of view, which included the issue of quality of the 'experimental' material. But, it gets worse! There are quite a few publications which report results from experiments and don't even include a copy of the material! See our review at: http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 7:20 PM, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0017.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/bcea4faa/attachment-0017.jpg From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:50:33 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:33 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment paul On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly > designed or amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such > criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:03:42 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:03:42 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> Message-ID: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >See our review at: >http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? Thank you, -Brigit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/cce958b6/attachment-0017.htm From d.sless at communication.org.au Thu Jun 26 12:11:47 2008 From: d.sless at communication.org.au (David Sless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:11:47 +1000 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <439B044B-BCE3-4B91-8690-D5BFA5D32A2A@communication.org.au> Sorry folks, It was not where it should be. Try again now. David -- blog: www.communication.org.au/dsblog web: http://www.communication.org.au Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO ? Communication Research Institute ? ? helping people communicate with people ? Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9489 8640 60 Park Street ? Fitzroy North ? Melbourne ? Australia ? 3068 On 26/06/2008, at 8:03 PM, Brigit van Loggem wrote: > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: >> See our review at: >> http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link > to the pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0017.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CRI-lh-logo-col.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/0f4e5a54/attachment-0017.jpg From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Thu Jun 26 12:12:36 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:12:36 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Brigit, Now it is fine. Try it again. 2008/6/26 Brigit van Loggem : > At 11:36 26-6-2008, David Sless wrote: > > See our review at: > http://www.communication.org.au/publications/reviews/Usable-medicines-information > > > I too would be very much interested to read the text, but the link to the > pdf does not work. Where can I find it? > > Thank you, > -Brigit > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ > > -- Jos? de Souza PhD Student Department of Typography & Graphic Communication The University of Reading -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080626/c9f36e13/attachment-0017.htm From brigit at byteryte.nl Thu Jun 26 12:18:40 2008 From: brigit at byteryte.nl (Brigit van Loggem) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:18:40 +0200 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: <3FA63CCD-D4F3-45AA-9E26-06046B3F53A4@communication.org.au> <200806261007.m5QA7xRC085545@smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200806261020.m5QAKqnG023421@smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl> At 12:12 26-6-2008, Jos? de Souza wrote: >Brigit, >Now it is fine. Try it again. Thanks! -Brigit From frascara at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 26 18:54:49 2008 From: frascara at ualberta.ca (frascara at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0600 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080626105449.kawbqw5eok4wwggg@webmail.ualberta.ca> This is a very interesting topic, and close to my heart. A test that compares the relative merit of different alternatives for the design of a communication will result in the choice of the best one AVAILABLE, not THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE. In 1979 or 1980, when we were in the ISO at the planning stage for a second round of testing graphic symbols for public information and the test material had been selected, I was actively engaged in stopping the process, because I thought that most of the material was not worth testing. Working with Icograda I organized an international student project that generated graphic proposals to the I think 18 referents in question. This created problems of logistics for Easterby and Zwaga who were managing the testing, but in the end two thirds of the best performing symbols that were selected as a basis for ISO standards turned out to be the ones generated by this project. I think that lacking some way of controlling the quality of the material that goes into a test procedure, one might end up with the best of the worst. Jorge Frascara Quoting Jose de Souza : > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given information > problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) > is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly designed or > amateurish. > > Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such criticism? > Who are the authors of such criticisms? > > Thanks. > > -- > Jos? de Souza > PhD Student > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > The University of Reading > From r.waller at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 00:11:55 2008 From: r.waller at reading.ac.uk (Rob Waller) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, vol 9, 177-194. This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. __________________________________ Rob Waller Department of Typography & Graphic Communication University of Reading T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 M +44 (0) 7850 665933 r.waller at reading.ac.uk On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I need your help once more. >> >> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >> validity of >> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >> information problem >> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >> designed or amateurish. >> >> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >> criticism? >> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Jos? de Souza >> PhD Student >> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >> The University of Reading >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080629/b856f013/attachment-0014.htm From p.stiff at reading.ac.uk Mon Jun 30 08:23:18 2008 From: p.stiff at reading.ac.uk (Paul Stiff) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:23:18 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence P incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW > (1975), 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework > for improving typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational > Technology, vol 12, 75-83. It was part of a special issue on > typographic research, and urged researchers to respect the tacit > knowledge of expert designers. > > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross > M (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design > Journal, vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by > Madeleine Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular > 1963 Pelican book on The Psychology of Perception, in which she > shows that what she claimed were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But > the actual chart she tested was a hopelessly amateur version. We > asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our own tests (unpublished) > found it to work well. > > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > >> Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... >> >> I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment >> >> >> paul >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: >> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> I need your help once more. >>> >>> One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the >>> validity of >>> empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given >>> information problem >>> (e.g., visual instructions, diagrams etc.) >>> is that these designs (experimental material) are per se badly >>> designed or amateurish. >>> >>> Do you know any written example (i.e., paper or book) of such >>> criticism? >>> Who are the authors of such criticisms? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Jos? de Souza >>> PhD Student >>> Department of Typography & Graphic Communication >>> The University of Reading >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >>> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >>> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >>> >>> For all Information Design matters: >>> http://InformationDesign.org >>> >>> Problems? Write to: >>> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > infodesign-cafe at list.informationdesign.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin at list.InformationDesign.org > ___________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.webtic.nl/pipermail/infodesign-cafe/attachments/20080630/1b54ea70/attachment-0013.htm From marconi2006 at googlemail.com Mon Jun 30 10:28:12 2008 From: marconi2006 at googlemail.com (Jose de Souza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:28:12 +0100 Subject: InfoD-Cafe: Designers' criticisms to the design of experimental material In-Reply-To: <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> References: <067240A2-9160-46AA-9B9C-30F53D8D308A@reading.ac.uk> <36251BD2-FF19-49A2-925A-2D71B7D9EA51@reading.ac.uk> <1FC1476C-A268-439E-8DB3-AFCD9AB6D315@reading.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Sless, Jorge Frascara, Paul Stiff and Rob Waller, Many thanks for the help. Indeed, your insights and examples are very important for teaching others (and myself) how to conduct research in the field of information design. A task that starts by learning how to assess existing research. GREAT!!! Jose'. 2008/6/30 Paul Stiff : > ah yes ... thanks for completing my sentence > P > > incidentally to the topic of this brief thread, I hope that the current > clusters of work on various aspects of Isotype see this; they might also > recall E. Tufte's thinly concealed scorn for Isotype > > > On 29 Jun 2008, at 23:11, Rob Waller wrote: > > The paper Paul is referring to is Macdonald-Ross M. and Waller RHW (1975), > 'Criticism, alternatives and tests: A conceptual framework for improving > typography?', Programmed Learning and Educational Technology, vol 12, 75-83. > It was part of a special issue on typographic research, and urged > researchers to respect the tacit knowledge of expert designers. > You could also look at pages 193-3 of Waller RHW and Macdonald-Ross M > (2000), 'The Transformer revisited', (232kb), Information Design Journal, > vol 9, 177-194. > > This includes a description of the experiment published by Madeleine > Vernon, a leading psychologist of her day, in her popular 1963 Pelican book > on The Psychology of Perception, in which she shows that what she claimed > were 'Isotype' charts do not work. But the actual chart she tested was a > hopelessly amateur version. We asked Marie Neurath to redesign it, and our > own tests (unpublished) found it to work well. > __________________________________ > > Rob Waller > Department of Typography & Graphic Communication > University of Reading > T +44 (0) 118 378 6411 > M +44 (0) 7850 665933 > r.waller at reading.ac.uk > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:50, Paul Stiff wrote: > > Michael Macdonald-Ross and maybe also Robert Waller ... > > I may be able to find examples, but can't stop at the moment > > > paul > > > On 26 Jun 2008, at 10:20, Jose de Souza wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I need your help once more. > > One of the criticisms made by designers in relation to the validity of > empirical research comparing "equivalents designs" for a given > information problem > (e.g., visual instructions, diagram